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RE: Q&A

Paige — Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:18:43 GMT

Well, I'm glad it wasn't as bad as I thought. I probably misunderstood you, it happens all the time

I'm glad you learned a lot and got to fly. I hope you have other coaching experiences that turn out to be fantastic.

RE: Q&A

dzjnky — Sun, 11 Dec 2005 03:19:02 GMT

Paige, I think you may have misunderstood... the tunnel staff was awesome - I learned an incredible amount from them and I had a great time! Absolutely wonderful folks! Also, I'm not upset about the deal with the coach, it was just a mismatch between my expectations, and what happened. I just bring it up to motivate others to learn more about their coaches before they hire them than I did. I was overanxious to get some coaching, and just jumped the gun a bit. So, I learned more than just flying that day... Besides, I would never have gotten the flying time that day if I hadn't been with the coach.

RE: Q&A

Paige — Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:56:41 GMT

Thank you for all the great feedback and taking the time to post all that. I very much appreciate it

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience w. a coach, esp a SV rat. I know at SVO (we have the best trained staff by FAR of the SV's- our staff trains everyone else) the rats know it better than some of the 'coaches' that come in on their own (including me- I'll always be looking to learn from them and get feedback on my coaching). I've seen new instructors blossom into great flyers and coaches at SVO and I say you still can't beat our staff, they are trained by the super hot shot flyers/coaches who started it all at SVO (not starting tunnel flying obv. but the SV thing). So if you are ever in this neighborhood as the rats tons, they are a wealth of knowledge. It is possible if you exp. happened at SVO that they were a new instructor finding their groove. If that was the case you'd be marveled at how well they fly and coach now. They are so busy at SVO that they learn and progress so fast.

I'm off to fly, have a good one and THANKS AGAIN

RE: Q&A

dzjnky — Sat, 10 Dec 2005 05:38:00 GMT

You guys have already hit on most of my answers, but figured I would chime in anyways... You won't know you got it right unless there are a few "me too's" thrown in

(Q): What are some goals & accomplishments you hope to achieve in your sessions?
(A): To have fun, and to learn some new skills. I agree with prior comments about focus on the positive, but provide realistic feedback so that I can correct the stuff that needs correcting - I've got enough bad habits, don't need any new ones! A big smile & thumbs up when I "get it right" is great reinforcement, and keeps me in the mood to have fun. I definitely learn better/faster when I am having fun, and am "on a roll" - a good coach picks up on that, and amplifies it.

(Q): What are your expectations of a coach?
(Q): What qualities are important to possess for your ideal coach? (almost the same question...)
(A): An awesome flyer - gotta know it to teach it! Also, must be able to show me when I'm being dense and not getting it.
A sense of humor - laugh with me as I clutz through the first attempts at something new.
Good drills to teach me the pieces without my even realizing that is what is going on - only after actually doing a sit-fly in the tunnel did all the "stupid" exercises suddenly make sense, and fit together to give me the skills to actually have some control in this new, seemingly contorted position - learning new skills safely is the hallmark of good coaching.
Good communication skills for the pre-brief & post-brief.
As Jenn said - patience, patience, patience! But also the knowledge to try a different "angle" if I'm just not getting it - coached tunnel time is not cheap, so spending a whole turn in the tunnel working on one detail doesn't keep it fun. Besides, it gets frustrating trying the same thing over and over. Switch it up a bit, and come back to that detail in a later session with a fresh outlook, and maybe new ways to help it sink in.

(Q): What bad experiences have you had with a coach?
(A): This ended up being as much my fault as anyone's, but I spent a bunch of money on coaching time without knowing my coach's specialty. I was doing my first attempts at back/sit flying, and instead of getting "quality time" with the coach, I ended up working exclusively with the tunnel rats. I'm not complaining about the rats - they were awesome and I learned lots, but I was left with a feeling of "why did I pay for a coach?" The reality is that was the only way I was going to get the time in the tunnel (I had a very tight schedule, during a busy period at the tunnel). I am looking forward to going back to work with this coach on belly flying, and I learned a valuable lesson about picking coaches.

(Q): Is positive reinforcement important to your progression or when you fly the tunnel you are very serious and want loads of things to improve on in a matter of fact manner?
(A): Positive reinforcement and being serious are not mutually exclusive. Personally, I am serious about having fun while I learn. I learn best in a relaxed, fun, motivating environment. I am an analytical sort, so I handle the technical details relatively easily, and constructive feedback is why I pay a coach. BUT, it still has to all happen in a fun environment for me to absorb as much as possible. The positive reinforcement and fun environment are key to giving me the confidence to try something new without performance anxiety.

Hope this is the kind of stuff you are looking for, Paige.

RE: Q&A

Skytender — Sat, 10 Dec 2005 00:08:16 GMT

hates a harsh word,... but I truelly dislike it when a coach "parks it" right in front of my door and then sets the student up to go out the other one... drives me nuts....

RE: Q&A

freefalljenn — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:49:03 GMT

I admit, I expect a lot from my coaches, which is probably why I have been dissapointed with coaching more often than satisfied with it. But, if I am going to put 110% effort into everything I do with them, I think they should do the same.

RE: Q&A

freefalljenn — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:56:18 GMT

(Q): You hate it when a coach....?
(A): (I am drawing on my skydiving and tunnel experiences to answer these). I hate it when a coach expects more from me than I can possibly deliver; that gives me serious performance anxiety. I still have performance anxiety in skydiving from coaches and instructors that I had during my student progression 6 years ago. I hate it when a coach isn't willing to give me a little bit of undivided attention when I am giving them my undivided attention. I hate it when a coach is so set in their ways that they don't know what to tell me when my muscles don't work a certain way and I can't bend that way. I hate it when a coach doesn't have the patience to wait for me to learn something and instead "holds my hand" through it so that I never really learn. It makes me dependent on that person or another instructor. I don't like it when a coach gives me too much criticism with very little positive feedback and vice versa. Don't make me feel like a schmuck, but don't make me feel perfect either.

(Q): What bad experiences have you had with a coach?
(A): (As I mentioned above, I am drawing on my tunnel and skydiving experiences to answer these.)
The coach was so tense and serious that I didn't even want to jump with them. I performed horribly on the skydive and then had to search for someone else to instruct me. Again, as I mentioned above, skydiving performance anxiety, stemming from coaching/instructing that I received 6 years ago. I had a coach who didn't even bother to debrief me after a student jump until the next day; I personally want to feel important to the person that it coaching me, particularly if I am paying a lot for it.

(Q): Is positive reinforcement important to your progression or when you fly the tunnel you are very serious and want loads of things to improve on in a matter of fact manner?
(A): I am serious about learning, but I will learn much faster if it is fun for me. I learn skydiving and tunnel flying very slowly, so I can only handle a few things at a time to work on. I need baby steps. Without positive reinforcement, I stop having fun, stop progressing, and start regretting the experience.

RE: Q&A

freefalljenn — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:18:11 GMT

Oh yeah, oh yeah, I forgot to say up above that I need a coach who is willing and able to show me, in the tunnel, during my session, what exactly they want me to do if I have the blank or deer in headlights look on my face. That way, when I just don't get it, I can have a demonstration which may help me get it.

RE: Q&A

Paige — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:04:13 GMT

(Q): You hate it when a coach....?
(A): Tells you to go in there and just stick the bodyposition (when I have little experience flying the position). If I have been doing something a while and its just a matter of confidence, then sticking it is okay but with no prior knowledge, don't tell me to 'stick it'...I'll show you where to stick it I KID I KID! Anyway, Just do it they say. Right, if it was that easy why would I need to pay you? I'm a slow learner and need more than just figure it out on your own, 'feel it', 'fly it.' I have to feel the sweetspot before I can duplicate it and with me that reqiures technical info as well as 'just do it' later on down the road.

(Q): What bad experiences have you had with a coach?
(A): I had a tunnel coach who was so impatient w. me, I got so discouraged and didn't have the best of time. His team mate was the one picking me up and making me between sessions and I wasn't even his student. Don't get me wrong I've always loved the tunnel but it was a real downer because it seemed like he expected me to be able to sit fly beautifully. I told him my sky and tunnel experience up front so he knew what he was getting into when he agreed to coach me.

*I WILL NEVER DO THIS TO A STUDENT OF MINE. I'm a slow learner too. I apologize to my coaches (that are so tolerant) but I hope that they learn patience from me and that if they stick with it, eventually I'll be flying it beautifully and gracefully.

(Q): Is positive reinforcement important to your progression or when you fly the tunnel you are very serious and want loads of things to improve on in a matter of fact manner?
(A): I'm a little of both. I want to fly for fun and I want to be serious and learn. Regardless of my mood and goals, I need positive reinforcement; I feel it is so important and has so many benefits with no drawbacks- blowing smoke up someone's *** and being positive are 2 totally different things lets not confuse

RE: Q&A

Paige — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:49:39 GMT

Jenn- that's all great stuff and just what I was looking for. Thanks for taking the time to write all that up. I'm very glad that my coaching style worked well with your learning. I had a great time and nothing that you said is too much to expect of a coach. Most of the time you pay good money for coaches because they are worth it, they know what they are talking about. Sadly, this isn't always the case and I want to know what to avoid as well as work towards.

Carrie flew at SVP and showed me her video when she got back to FL. There was a 'tunnel coach,' that had to be saved by the SVP employee several times. To top it all off, the SVP rat had to save the student from the 'coach' more than once It was a scary video to watch, the SVP rat earned his keep that block for sure. I could see he was relieved when Carrie and Rastas got in to fly. Thank goodness the SVP rat was big and tall so he manhandled the 'coach' and student. This 'coach' might have been a great skydiver/sky coach but he had no business coaching in the tunnel- he started way too early and was only 'teaching' basic belly manuvers that he had not even mastered.

RE: Q&A

freefalljenn — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:19:32 GMT

Paige, hopefully my answers will help you out.

If you receive coaching...
(Q): What are some goals & accomplishments you hope to achieve in your sessions?
(A): Obviously, I hope to come out of the session feeling like I accomplished something; I hate feeling like I have wasted tunnel time. While it is a blast to fly, I have the most fun when I am learning and being challenged. I want to leave each coaching session a slightly better and safer flyer. While it can be amusing and fun to try to figure things out on ones own, it can also be the start to bad habits. I like having a coach to help me learn the most efficient way to fly with the best body position. But, mostly, I want to have FUN!

(Q): What are your expectations of a coach?
(A): I need a coach who is chill and relaxed. I definitely need a preflight briefing, particulary if I am trying something new. If I don't seem to get it, I need the coach to physically put me in the positions I am going to fly so I have it somewhat figured out before I go in the tunnel. And if something isn't working for me or my body can't accomplish it, I need a coach versatile enough to help me figure out ways around it or other ways to accomplish my goal. I expect a coach to push me, particularly when my body starts to get tired, but understand when I need a break and when too many things are being thrown my direction at once. I want a coach to constantly challenge me and introduce me to new things so that I don't get bored. I expect a coach to focus on the positives, but also give me some criticism so that I can become a better flier. Coaching is kind of pointless without a debrief, so I definitely need a debrief afterwards. And, most of all, I need a coach to smile at me in the tunnel, so I know they are having fun too. It is encouraging to have someone smiling at you as you are learning new and challenging things. It is a lot to ask isn't it?

(Q): What qualities are important to possess for your ideal coach?

(A): Definitely, patience, patience and more patience....especially with me, because sometimes it takes a while for me to "get it." Obviously knowledge and skill are important characteristics. The coach must love to fly in the tunnel and love to teach others how to fly in the tunnel too. While I have had some very good male coaches, I didn't get nearly as many good pointers to help me fly my body from them as I did from a female coach. Again, a lot to ask, huh?

I think that's all. Paige, your coaching style worked really well for me. I wouldn't change a thing. And the fact that you are allowed to take a camera in the tunnel makes the video debrief an added bonus. I really hope that your tunnel camps go well and you have lots of fun and get lots more chicas in the TPM.

Q&A

Paige — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 18:34:43 GMT

Fill in your own (A):, share your thoughts w. me I've got a few tunnel camps coming up and I would love to know what people/students think and expect.

If you receive coaching...
(Q): What are some goals & accomplishments you hope to achieve in your sessions?
(A): I always hope to come out with a positive experience as both a coach and a student. Always focusing on the positives more than negatives but making necessary comments for improvement. I fly to have a good time and to learn, that's it. I'm not too into skydiving and get way more thrill from the fans so there is no need for me to 'train' but I love to fly hard. I need a coach who will push me positively but also just get in there and mess around with me if I'm struggling, want a break, or just for the hell of it. For me @ SVO, that's Sean MacCormac. Sean's an AMAZING flyer who has been invited by Olav on the World Record Attempt (70 something way maybe). Worth every penny you will give him. His communication & coaching style is efficient, positive, and packed full of great tips for you to work on.

(Q): What are your expectations of a coach?
(A): I need a briefing before, during, and after a tunnel session(s). Lately I've been either doing a debrief or a prebrief but that is mostly for time reasons, we fly late and have a long drive home we have to be awake for. I need a coach who makes me smile and relax while still pushing me to fly harder. I just need to have a good time flying!

(Q): What qualities are important to possess for your ideal coach?

(Q): Please feel free to add and answer ?'s so we can all learn more.